Come With Us Podcast

Exploring the Sexy Side of Psychedelics with Joe Moore Part 1

November 01, 2023 Beth Liebling Episode 151
Come With Us Podcast
Exploring the Sexy Side of Psychedelics with Joe Moore Part 1
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Imagine a world where psychedelics are not just substances, but tools for healing, wellness, and sexual experience enrichment. Welcome to today's intriguing episode where we sit down with Joe Moore, co-founder of Psychedelics Today, who has devoted his life to exploring the potential of these powerful substances.

We journey with Joe as he takes us from his days in software development to studying LSD psychotherapy with a Prague-based psychiatrist. We uncover how psychedelics could potentially revolutionize the way we approach wellness and healing. Joe shares his passion for creating a safe haven for people to learn about psychedelics, emphasizing the importance of philosophical grounding. He also talks about promoting the work of psychologist Stan Grof and the creation of a psychedelics education program. We delve deeper into the exciting possibilities of psychedelics enhancing our lives, from creative problem-solving to boosting our libido. Get ready for a captivating discussion on fear, pleasure, and the role psychedelics can play. Buckle up for a mind-expanding ride that you wouldn't want to miss!

If you want to learn more, check out https://psychedelicstoday.com/ 

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Speaker 1:

Are you saying?

Speaker 2:

you faked with me, yeah.

Speaker 3:

I just can't say oh, oh, oh, oh I can't wrong.

Speaker 1:

Now you're single. What do you know about sexual relations? Is it true that if you don't use it, you use it?

Speaker 3:

I'm a little worried about being a slut. You're listening to the Come With Us podcast Talking the good, the kinky and the ugly. Here are your hosts, beth and Erin.

Speaker 1:

Hello, hello, hello. All you sexy holes and polls, welcome to Come With Us podcast. You know, we know, sexy stuff matters just as much as the lovey-dovey stuff. We're here to help you get all of the pleasure you deserve. And, oh my goodness, today we're talking about pleasure on a whole different dimension. That's it. We're talking about psychedelics. Psychedelics, mushrooms, I don't know, I don't even know what else I act like. I know this shit, I don't. But we're so excited and so happy to have an expert from Psychedelics Today. His name is Joe Moore and his company, psychedelics Today and Joe. They believe that the psychedelics are going to totally disrupt the way that humanity approaches healing, wellness, and it's going to be a whole new paradigm shift in terms of pain, in terms of even, hopefully, sexual experience, because that's what we're going to talk about here Depending on, in relationships, how these things might be able to help us overcome some of the things that we carry with us and don't realize it. So psychedelics today is the leading discussion and they have over 2.2 million annual learners. They have the largest global reach of any media platform in the psychedelics world. Thank you, joe Moore is a co-founder, so thank you, thank you, thank you for making time for us. We are so excited.

Speaker 2:

Aaron and I have been talking for um, yeah, three years about trying to do something about like drugs in a healthy way, or or to learn what they can do when not to do More, so do episodes on them to talk and try to nail down expert, quote, unquote, expert after expert who I don't know if it's just the culture or what would get about a couple days out and go. It just flake out and disappear.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah. So we're really appreciative, joe, and you're a serious guy. You came from the world of of um software development, right? Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into all this.

Speaker 4:

So I'll start with uh, uh, what do you call it? When did prude first get installed in your software? I'm from New Hampshire, new England, um, so you know kind of an interesting prude culture, which is which is relevant here and uh, I used to joke, I was born in Massachusetts.

Speaker 2:

Everybody that's born there is issued a Puritan hat when you're born People would believe me somehow too, but it's you know it's just like everybody believes that everyone here in Texas rides. You know, horses to work and stuff, so you don't know but we do know about being prude.

Speaker 1:

This is a very, very uptight, very repressed, very socially conservative.

Speaker 4:

So I came, um, came up in New Hampshire. I started interning in software at age like 15 or 16. As soon as I could drive, I was interning. Um and I did uh, I thought I was going to do applied computer science in my undergrad. I was studying in the White Mountains there, primarily so I could snowboard six days a week plus Um, which is great, um. It quickly cut from software to philosophy, which was far more interesting. I kept some minors and and kept working in the technology jobs that were available at school and also interning in my summers. Um, the psychedelics came in right here, so I'm going to kind of try to rapid fire this. So, um, psychedelics were introduced to me as a topic that you could take seriously in a, in a book called Holographic Universe by a writer, Michael Talbot, um discussing a lot of edge cases and science that kind of lead you towards philosophy. Um, my teacher was using it as a philosophy one on one book and there was some sections on LSD psychotherapy, particularly this one psychiatrist who um quite devoted to Stanislaw Graf out of a Prague at the time Soviet occupied Prague. He was doing LSD research substantially with people, um, with all sorts of traumas, addictions, and having great results. Um and uh. Came to America, started doing it here, developed a prep work method that I've studied extensively as well and done a lot of Um yeah. So software was my career. It was kind of the easiest thing for me to jump into after school. You know, uh, if you don't want to go to grad school, philosophy, jobs are sparse.

Speaker 1:

Um so yeah, if you don't want to see in the academic world too. So yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 4:

Like take out 80 grand, do this PhD and then you get to move to deep Iowa. It's like no fucking way Sorry. Iowa, but like I don't really want to move there Um you could do some things to attract me I promise like legalizing all drugs, but we'll get to that later.

Speaker 1:

Um, so Okay. So you take this philosophy class that turns you on to LSD, or the concept of yeah yeah.

Speaker 4:

Exactly so. Lsd, like I'm I'm now pretty substance agnostic it's really what people are interested in. You kind of fine tune for your purpose, um yeah, so LSD psychedelics require philosophy in a lot of ways, because you can really get ungrounded and if you don't have things you can hold on to, like, contemporary culture doesn't give us too much, we can really grasp and say, okay, this is real, it's like you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, sorry, that's not making any sense. To me.

Speaker 4:

Ah, go for it, you mean physically hold on to during. No, I have some conceptual things to grasp, so like what is water, what is love, what is earth, what does it mean to be alive? So you're asking big and sometimes, because you get forced into an experience, you're asking very big questions about the nature of who am I, what is reality? Things that usually just get kind of jammed down your throat from a church where you actually have to like, think about it and come up with your own conclusions and what is something you can actually hold on to, you know, when you go into a really radical experience, because these things can get tested in those states. So at the same time I'm studying philosophy, I'm exploring big experiences and doing work in software. So like kind of a disintegrated life to have to hide all that from my software world. They all know it's all over LinkedIn now, so they're all probably happy to know somebody that fled the coop and started doing drug media.

Speaker 1:

That's like I'm a recovering lawyer, so yeah you can be a recovering software coder.

Speaker 4:

That's right, I think I saw Esquire on your card. So my career in software started just basic customer support, then started doing systems engineering and got into kind of larger international projects with some very big software companies that you would know and some of the world's biggest charities. So it was really interesting to do that kind of stuff. But you know my heart wasn't in it. I was spending as much time and money away from that as I could. You know, probably drinking to avoid having to deal with that stuff, because you can't do LSD every night, so you're like you know, but you can drink beers every night.

Speaker 1:

Okay, why can you not do LSD? I'm sorry, I'm really ignorant. That's not a good idea. So my definition.

Speaker 4:

Beth of like psychedelics is non-specific, so generalized amplifiers of whatever's going on in here, mental or psychic process is how I put it. So it could be a Tom and Jerry rerun. It could be like, you know, a weird interaction you had at the grocery store, post office, it could be a car crash. You know, these things can all come up for you. Or it could be stuff that's never happened to you, right? So it could be having the experience of what the Big Bang was like, you know, not the dirty one, the natural one, and then I don't know if the dirtier one probably is.

Speaker 1:

They're both natural, it's just one is a lot more pleasant. Yeah, it requires a little more lube. Yeah.

Speaker 4:

So I don't know, things can get amplified, and amplified, and amplified to the point where you're kind of freaking yourself out or freaking friends and loved ones out.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 4:

You know, all of a sudden all you want to talk about is, you know, a conspiracy and you can't get it out of your head, like I'm so fixated on it, like weird stuff can happen to your personality and the way you're expressing. If you're consuming psychedelics or most drugs too often, right, like I kind of hit a breaking point from too much coffee a few years ago. I was like, oh, I'm going to need some attention, and then I got my coffee in check, right. So it's like if you're doing LSD like two times a year, it's probably going to be fine, but there are risks, yeah. So yeah, everybody is a good prefix here. Drugs are often illegal in the United States and many other places around the world, largely for racist reasons, as the DEA admitted somewhat recently in their museum in DC, right outside DC, and didn't slow them down arresting people at all.

Speaker 1:

And they also because they're illegal, then they can be dangerous, because you can't actually trust where you get them from, necessarily. So that's always my concern. We can talk about the safety too. Yeah, yes, okay, it's a really big deal.

Speaker 3:

Thank you Okay.

Speaker 4:

Let's flag that for later. Perfect, I'm taking a note here, so folks, we'll get into safety for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's so much to talk about, yeah.

Speaker 4:

And it's one of my favorite topics. So where were we? We were kind of talking about why you shouldn't be taking psychedelics.

Speaker 1:

Oh, because you were saying so, you were started drinking more. You weren't happy in your job, and so somehow you decided to make drugs your passion and your profession, just like I did with sex.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, right, right, it was a couple years ago. We started calling alcohol caveman drugs.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 4:

Which is, you know, somewhat technically accurate. Not exactly, It'd be a little out of the caves for it to work, but you know I still drink. I'm not against any drugs specifically, Okay. But you know there was this paper published by Dr David Nut, who is the former UK drugs are was published in the Lancet, which is a top, top tier medical journal, and it was a chart. A drug harm scale chart, funded by the UK government published an amazing journal and it showed maybe 15 or 20 drugs harm to self, harm to others, in a graph. The Economist published this, I think in 2009 as well, and it was LSD and psilocybin were two of the three safest drugs and then alcohol was by far the most harm to self and others. But it's not like, you know, chilling drinking right. It's like how, how we do it when we're not doing it right and we know we're going to have a bad time and it might actually deteriorate our lives, right.

Speaker 1:

Right and people drive with it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:

One of my, one of my bad jokes, that I'll give you guys, this is like I feel like you guys are into that kind of thing, so and it's not even a joke, it's just kind of like a gut punch, but it's like, oh, alcohol has almost hurt my family as much as the Catholic church has. Oh, this is a sex podcast. I feel like it's okay to say but and I'm, you know, I come from kind of Irish Catholic Scottish lineage. So it's kind of true when you, when I look back in time at like the harm it has done to my, you know, ancestors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Are psychedelics. Are they physically addictive like alcohol?

Speaker 4:

Ketamine would be the closest to an addiction you could get from a psychedelic, so it kind of what you're. There's a subtext there. It's really about the detox. There's two compounds If you're detoxing from you could be in serious health risk and that's alcohol and benzodiazepines, like Sanix and some people would say that about heroin, but it's really opiates kind of only because your heart gets really weak in time and like the stress could be a problem, but that's more like lack of appropriate sleep and diet. Heroin itself is actually really safe, but the way people use it not so much.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was going to say I know that was the one I've seen people struggle with the most to get off.

Speaker 4:

It's just painful, horrible Sigaret predictions worse oh no, that's true, that that yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so, okay. So then you decide to leave software. How, what did you do? What was the first thing you did in terms of the psychedelics world professionally?

Speaker 4:

So I started this company about seven and a half years ago May 2016, I think it was and, because I was looking it up earlier, may 11, I think, was our first episode, and I think that's like right when I opened the doors to my sexy shop in Houston.

Speaker 1:

by the way, it was.

Speaker 4:

Maybe it was.

Speaker 1:

May 9th or something 2016.

Speaker 4:

So, yeah, I've only had one Houston experience and I loved it Ah. Anyway yeah we started doing that. I was doing this secretly from my job. It took me like probably at least a year to tell my family what I was doing and, of course, like, oh, you're going to lose your job if you do this, you shouldn't do that. And then what do we do with that? So it was right before the pandemic hit and I actually got laid off and I was like, oh, this is amazing timing. I've always wanted to get laid off and get a big check and I used it all to start the company and keep developing things. So we started as a podcast. We wanted to hype that particular psychiatrist, stan Grof, his field of psychology he developed called Transpersonal Psychology, which is sort of spiritualized psychology, and then the breathwork method, holotropic breathwork. So those were our three pillars and, like preserve the memory and legacy of our teacher who's still with us, and we did all that in the podcast. No intent of money, we started saying maybe we should cover our costs for this thing. So we started developing classes online, primarily for college kids who may or may not be having a hard time with use or exploring it, and a lot of college kids aren't as reckless as me and they wanted to have a safe approach and I'm like, okay, yeah, great. Like let's give you some resources, let's tell you how to plan, let's how to plan the downsides too, like if something scary is going to happen, you have a good plan for that and then in the weeks and months after also have a plan. So, like you know, we don't really have plans for how we're going to do drugs in contemporary world, right? It's like oh, I'm just going to shove these powders in my nose and we'll figure it out later. It's like well what if you knew where you were going, you planned and you knew the drugs were safe. You knew who you were going to be with was safe and who you wanted to be with and yeah, like. I think there needs to be a lot more planning in this stuff. So that's kind of what we developed. All of a sudden, doctors and therapists started showing up. I was embarrassed by the class at that point so we had to like hire clinicians and therapists to really beef it up and make it for them as well. So we started doing navigating psychedelics for clinicians and therapists and this is all before I was full time, Wow. And then we shortly after that I think it was like a year and a half, two years ago we started a program called Vital. It's our 12 month kind of professionally interested program where people who want to be either sitters or therapists or psychiatrists or yoga teachers that know how to do this stuff, Pilates instructors, etc. We actually have had a lot of sex educators come through our programs. I learned far more about sex than I ever have just by like small interactions with those folks Like, oh my gosh, I'm super ignorant, Great and yeah. Vital came out after I was laid off and we wanted to compete head on with the biggest programs out there MAPS and CIS and Naropa, and these are kind of the top tier training programs that people perceive. But we wanted an inclusive version. We wanted people who weren't clinicians involved, because clinicians are amazing but there's limitations to what clinicians can comfortably talk about or even fairly talk about Honestly, like you probably know, this as an attorney, former attorney, you might still be an attorney, but you know I am, but all I did was family law.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, oh yeah, right.

Speaker 4:

So there's like limits to what you can say even in those scenarios, whereas like can't we just be human with each other? And like this whole collective history humanity has with substance? For the majority of human history it wasn't gated by your profession or license, right, right? Even in like the early 1900s, late 1800s, before the drug war really ramped up, we could buy whatever we wanted over the counter from a safe supply. We could buy a codeine, we could buy cocaine, we could buy heroin, we could buy fascinating drugs, opium, alcohol mixtures like Lodinum. There's like a really robust history of what we used to be able to buy over the counter and people largely didn't have much issue with it. And you can check this out in Carl Hart's book Drug Use for Grown-Ups. He's a former head of psychology at Columbia Amazing writer.

Speaker 1:

Very cool.

Speaker 4:

And yeah. So that's kind of it. And now we're in our second round of vital. We hit like five and a half million downloads, maybe on the show, and just hit 100K on Instagram recently, which I was more excited about than the five million something downloads. I was like finally.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that's amazing Model. Tough Congrats, thank you. It's very exciting. And so what? So where are you going? Why? What do you? What would your ideal be? And then we could talk about more about the specifics. But you know, I want a world where everybody's fucking all the time. They're partners, everybody's happy, we don't have time for war and people are full of love, right Seems to me, psychedelics can play into that right.

Speaker 4:

So, I think Timothy Leary had these great lines about this concept of hedonic engineering. Like we now have all the science and research tools we need to develop, like the optimally pleasurable life and an LSD like. I keep bringing it up because I think it's it's superior in a lot of ways to a lot of the other substances. It's also wildly cheap. So right now people are buying it for somewhere between $3 to $10 and it can last somewhere between 8 to 12 hours. So like the dollar per minute is outrageous and at scale I believe it's going to come down to 50 cents 10 cents ago, with a safe, confirmed dose right, which is even better than what we have today, because you don't really know your dosing today. There's a couple of companies working on addressing that, but yeah, it's a big deal. So I'm going towards pleasure, I'm going towards peace, I'm going towards some sort of far more chilled out state than we're in as a species right now, because this is not okay and it's not going to keep working if we keep getting divided further and further. And, yeah, like it breaks down the walls for good conversations, especially around sex and relating and families, and like, do you actually want to do the same thing your parents and grandparents did, or should you experiment with other modes of being that might be better for you and the other people involved in that system? Right, for whatever reason. I think I saw this on a sci-fi show years and years ago about, like it was kind of a group wedding thing. It was kind of like a cult, but it was like the obvious future cult and there was 12 to 20 people in these group marriages that would co-live and like, given kind of our economic trajectory, that could be an interesting evolution.

Speaker 1:

Now we would call it a polycule, a polycule, a polypollup, that's polycule, yeah.

Speaker 4:

So like a polypod? Yeah, so like. I think there's that. I think psychedelics also can help us radically solve problems. So things around our assorted environmental issues could get resolved through creative problem solving here and not to mention just, you know, at larger scale. So we go outside of us feeling better as individuals and as our social pods. Like what if we could come up with and evolve social structures and governments that are happier and healthier? And you know better generally. You know not putting people in jail for what they do in their bedroom. You know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Or their lab Right. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1:

Well, can we, like I want to know first, like, how do you think physically, how do psychedelics affect sexual performance, libido, like kind of start there, because alcohol is a depressant. It actually decreases people's ability to enjoy and to engage. Actually, no-transcript.

Speaker 4:

Can we be a little vulgar?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, of course, please, yeah, great.

Speaker 4:

So like yeah, there's no there's no whiskey dick in MDMA or LSD Like you can have some weird things, that can happen for sure. But MDMA, for instance, ecstasy people people should understand this is probably the safest one. If you're in a committed relationship already, do it be exploring. Always check your local laws and make sure your ticker is okay for it, but it's. It's an amphetamine, but it does not feel like you're taking a whole mess of Adderall or coffee or something. It's a lot more subdued generally and your fear response goes away. So imagine if you could be with your 10 year partner and you could be unafraid of having conversations for the first time in your life.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I did not know that one.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1:

Your fear was okay, but so don't do it around strangers. You could you could.

Speaker 4:

You could have an amazing time at 7-Eleven or wherever you're at.

Speaker 1:

Well, but you could put yourself perhaps in danger if you don't have a fear response.

Speaker 2:

I mean fear. Response is what keeps animals alive? It's not to that level right.

Speaker 4:

It's not like oh cool, I'm not afraid of the interstate, so I'm just going to run into it, right, it's not like that. You still you're still somewhat intelligent and cogent and having great, great insights and thoughts. You're just like, yeah, maybe I don't want to go talk to that cop and show them everything in my pockets right Like you're not going to have, you know? Oh, let's just take all my clothes off and you could have that Usually that's not. Mdma alone, okay, and you know, running around a festival or whatever.

Speaker 1:

What about? I heard that with MDMA that it might be harder for people to orgasm, that they enjoy that being touched significantly but makes it harder to orgasm.

Speaker 2:

That's the story I'm pretty sure I've worked as them done.

Speaker 4:

MDMA. But I don't know, I can't say it's impossible, but I can say that that's a standard story.

Speaker 1:

Okay, because I've heard it from a bunch of swingers with a lot of experience, so I think it's like they often.

Speaker 4:

Often people like this is a whole field, right, Like, I think, chem sex is what they would call it. Often it's like what kind of chem? If you don't know that one, you can Google that later. It's a whole developed thing. It's largely from, I think, the gay world. It was pretty well developed, but I think there's other communities that are learning from what they've helped to pioneer. And yeah, mdma for sure. You might not get the orgasm you want, but you get a lot of pleasure. And then Timothy Leary used to talk about LSD. He was so good with words, he's being a little ridiculous too. He's like if a woman takes LSD and has sex with her partner, she can have 10,000 orgasms in one night, it's like. But also maybe their dosing was way higher than I'm used to, so I don't know. And it can get sloppy and weird, because your LSD is a pretty freaking weird drug and psychedelics are generally pretty weird. But if you stick with it and it's a love scenario, not just like a you know a rando hookup from you know a swinger site and then like let's do LSD together, we just met, like that kind of that's probably a bad idea. But if it's somebody you've known for three plus months or something you guys really trust each other, that then there could be some interesting stuff that could happen. Yeah, and it's Leary's kind of hedonic engineering idea is all about learning to get to know your nervous system. And how does my body work? How does my nervous system actually work? And have you seen these homuncular representations of the human nervous system? It's like these really weird kind of cartoon images of the human body with. Things are different sizes based on the density of nerves and feeling. So you'd have gigantic hands, gigantic tongue and lips, gigantic genitals, big ears, gigantic head. Torso is tiny, like legs are tiny, generally speaking, and it's worth checking out homuncular representation or something so like getting to know how to treat your nervous system really well, especially in relation and insects like those things. Once you know how to do that, then you can repeat it and have different interesting novel experiences. The one I'm hearing about the most the substance I'm hearing about the most right now in sex is one called two CB to Charlie Bravo and it's a derivative of mescaline and the way I like to describe it it's one of my favorites right now is bumper bowling. We put up the little inflatable lanes. So, it's like tripping with the bumper lanes up is a way I like to put it. It comes on really, really really slow. Often I can't tell if I'm high or not, but then all of a sudden something happens. I'm like, yeah, of course I'm high, but yeah, people seem to really like that one and you can do some really interesting things with the nervous system. A lot of your work is very nervous system focused, right.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm, yes, yes, and usually it's often accompanied by nerves, like the negative association of nerves being that they're tense and don't relax easily. So, okay, well, we're gonna have to wrap this episode up, but I definitely there's so much more, so you'll stick around with us, please. And I think the only other question before we go is just, if people wanna experiment with stuff, do they need to have like a sober guide with them, or is that too complicated, in which case we'll tackle that next week.

Speaker 4:

I think the safest way would be exploring without sex first with a couple friends, and definitely having a sober person in the room, like having a sober observer of your sex, could be a little weird for some folks but, it could also be what people are into. So it's, how do we know? So, yeah, I think, having a sober supervisor until you're comfortable enough to like jump into the bedroom and maybe just have somebody sober outside the bedroom, you know, perfect yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good, I just don't wanna leave people this week going.

Speaker 4:

okay, hey, honey, let's just jump right in and try some shit and Don't, don't don't get educated as much as you can first Cause this is like this is double black diamond terrain for sure.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Okay. So absolutely, listeners, stay with us again for next week, cause definitely you're gonna wanna learn more and we'll get more specifics. And, frankly, I'll tell you about my trip, where I've only done psilocybin a few times and it's been very, very interesting, but-.

Speaker 4:

Can't wait.

Speaker 1:

Sounds fun. I can't wait to do it again sometime, I gotta tell you. So, all right, well, thank you, thank you. Thank you, joe Moore from Psychedelics Today, and is the website psychedelicstodaycom.

Speaker 4:

No, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

It is psychedelicstodaycom. Go check him out and his classes and everything there. And, yeah, thank you for making time for us today. I am Beth Darling at you can find me at BethDarlingcom. You can also find my book, the Five Kines of Intimacy how to Keep your Love Alive. If you haven't gotten it yet, read it and then, in fact, maybe we'll talk next time about how psychedelics can help us get much more intimate with our partner in all the different ways. So thanks, erin, for being here, and we will look forward to seeing all of y'all next week and come with us podcast. Big hugs and love. Bye.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for listening to the Come With Us podcast. Be sure to follow us on social media or come with us podcast and send in your questions, comments and confessions to come with us. Confessions at gmailcom. Until next time, keep it fun, flirty and naughty.

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