Come With Us Podcast

Navigating the Slippery Slope: Accidental Cheating, Catfishing, and Boundary Setting in Relationships

October 04, 2023 Beth Liebling Episode 147
Come With Us Podcast
Navigating the Slippery Slope: Accidental Cheating, Catfishing, and Boundary Setting in Relationships
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever wondered if cheating can truly be "accidental"? This episode delves into that thorny topic. No judgement here, but we explore the boundaries that define fidelity, and how they can be blurred due to unforeseen circumstances, including intoxication. We're trying to bring a better understanding of how these incidents occur and the accountability needed in their aftermath.

We proceed to peel back the layers of cheating, exploring its physical and emotional facets. Ever heard of a 'dry drunk'? We draw parallels with this concept, illuminating how neglecting inner work can unexpectedly lead to overstepping relationship boundaries. Our chat considers how these instances can act as mirrors, reflecting deeper issues that may need attention within the relationship.

The terrain gets trickier as we navigate how innocent flirtations can snowball into something more. Meanwhile, we tackle the world of catfishing - yes, it's a real thing! We consider the possible entrepreneurial motives behind this trend and its implications on trust in relationships. Through all this, the heart of our conversation is communication and boundary setting in relationships. It's not just about avoiding mishaps. It's about building stronger, healthier bonds. Don't miss out on this enlightening journey into the intricacies of modern relationships.

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Speaker 1:

Are you saying you faked with me?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I just can't say it and it says so cool, I can't wrong Now you're single.

Speaker 3:

What do you know about sexual relations? Is it true that if you don't use it, you use it?

Speaker 2:

I'm a little worried about being a slut. You're listening to the Come With Us podcast, talking the good, the kinky and the ugly. Here are your hosts, beth and Erin.

Speaker 3:

Have you ever just like, said something so stupid and you're like, oh my god, I just stuck my whole foot in my mouth, right? Well, what happens when you do something stupid and you find something like of somebody else's accidentally in your mouth, sort of we're talking about accidentally cheating, accidental cheaters, that's it. I know it sounds strange, but that's the topic for today. We're going to talk about how people don't necessarily start out trying to cheat, but do We'll see? Does that make a difference, who knows? Anyway, hello, hello, hello all you holes and poles. I'm Beth Darling here from bethtarlingcom. We're so glad that you're joining us for another episode of Come With Us podcast. We really are trying to be, you know, to give you ideas and practices and hints and advice that can keep your life in this better shape as ever I don't know, you know make your love life better, keep you sexy, keep you happy and keep you in whatever relationship you're trying to do. So, erin, we are. When I suggested the topic accidental cheaters, I loved your response.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's an accident to stub your toe.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's an accident to drop a glass. It's an accident to spill milk. Most of the time, I mean, some kids will just tip over. Holy crap. That looks like it was an accident. It was. I don't even know when it happened, though you didn't mean to do whatever you did to bruise the hell out of your arm. If you're watching on YouTube, If you're not, there's a gigantic bruise that looks about the size of a softball.

Speaker 3:

honestly, on Beth's right tricep area- yeah, it's huge and it's dark and it's yucky. Yeah, it was an accident. I have no idea how it happened.

Speaker 1:

None, the accidental cheating part. Yeah, those two words don't coincide and make sense.

Speaker 3:

You don't think, you just accidentally find your cock in somebody else's mouth or pussy, Exactly Like oh no, how did that happen?

Speaker 1:

And again, and here's an interesting thing, a lot of every couple has a different definition of what they consider cheating. Yes, some couples are completely fine with their significant other kissing another person. Yes, some are OK with emotional affairs or whatever.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think it's not an affair.

Speaker 1:

Well, emotional If it's OK right, a connection, emotional connection. Outside of the relationship. Yeah, some people are OK with just their significant other, just talking to another person, flirting, or not just having a conversation, and that's where they want the line drawn. Yeah, so, but you don't accidentally, like you said, open your eyes and go oh shit, you're not my wife. Or oh shit, you're not my girlfriend, and yet you're just going to town on my balls right now.

Speaker 3:

That wasn't a accident, now, well, unless you've had major drugs, in whatever case that is a state of mind is a different thing.

Speaker 1:

The article you had sent me. I read the thing and it most of it sounded like it was making excuses for or enabling. But I do account for the inebriation aspect. Now a one time thing happens you get so black out drunk you have no idea what happened. Or somebody put something in your drink, you have no idea what happened. Something like that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but those to me are two different things. If somebody else drugs you.

Speaker 1:

OK, yeah, that's different Fair enough.

Speaker 3:

Right, that's no responsibility there. But on the other hand, if you allow yourself to get so drunk and stuff, then I would argue there's still some culpability there. I agree that it's still accidental because, but that's what I'm saying, that was where the word accidental comes in.

Speaker 1:

Because you turned out I'm not saying you're not wrong you turned over your brain and your rational decision making over to a toddler who has a license Right and raising sexual hormones towards another person Like can be towards another person, and you handed the keys to that vehicle over to them and said have fun, do it, do whatever. Now, is it a good excuse? That depends on the person, but that is one of the few where you could tell me oh, it was an accident, and at which point you have to be so to me for it to be an what I would consider an accidental cheating. If my wife said I accidentally cheated on you and I said OK, babe, what happened? And she said I was out at the bar hanging out with some girls and I was in the line for the bathroom. This guy started talking to me and all of a sudden he kissed me and I kissed him back.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then I realized it was wrong. That was an accident, right? Ok, chemistry was there? Healing did You're probably a little bit inebriated you reciprocated. Ok, we'll call that an accident Does it, make it right to some people.

Speaker 1:

Am I going to hold it against you if you've done that to your Well, like while you're in a relationship? No, it's not my job to judge. I'm not any weird near fit to judge anybody on their life. I am a goofball person. I am as much as I try to be a good person. I'm probably failing daily. Actually, I probably am failing. I know I'm failing daily. I can always be a better person and so it's not my and it's not my job to judge. I didn't give me this, this power to judge other people on how they live their lives.

Speaker 3:

Right, right, and hopefully. I mean I mean you and I do this show together because we both have that sense that that we're really we do. We try not to judge other people again. Consent, that's, that's my line, yeah, but but I do think it's really important to think about these accidental cheating things, because I think this is what happens to so many couples that have been struggling and and are still trying to figure things out together, and then it can just blow everything up Now also, sometimes Maybe it's when somebody really has, they've been trying and they're just done and they're too afraid To admit to themselves or their partner to walk now that that's another thing.

Speaker 1:

Is that yeah, again that I'm not counting that as accidental. If you are cheating on your partner because you are unhappy in the relationship and you are just so miserable and the, the cute secretary at work is paying attention to you and you know what you you end up making out with her, doing her on your desk, whatever, but you're going. Well, I'm not happy at home and I'm just waiting for it to end. If that that's not an accident, you are just too much of a Coward or whatever you want to use, I'm gonna use coward to lay your cards on the table and look at your significant other and go. This is how I feel. I think this is over and I want out because guess what? It takes two to tango. It only takes one to break things up. Yeah, you can't force someone to stay in a relationship. You can't force somebody to love you.

Speaker 3:

Yep, god knows, I tried for 23 fucking years. I tried really exactly and it's.

Speaker 1:

And everybody goes oh well, what if she says no? She says no to a divorce or she says no to breaking up the? The judge is still gonna look at you and go. You don't want to be in this relationship. Okay, sign on the dotted line. Yeah, like does all. So.

Speaker 3:

I guess, maybe to me. I'm thinking that accidental cheating is is the slow, gradual, it's the, it's the putting the frog in the the tepid water and then heating it up slowly. To me, that's the accident is that it's going tiny, tiny, tiny little bits at a time, sort of Heating things up, until suddenly you're in a pot of boiling water and you're like shit, right, I didn't mean to get here, I just thought I was taking a bath. So I'm not excusing it, don't, please don't get me wrong. Right, I'm not excusing it, but what I? But what I think is important is that if we understand what this is, then we can talk about how it happens and how to not let it happen to you or to your partner, because that, to me, that's it right. We're here to help people have better, better sex, better love lives, more pleasure and having affairs. Cheating whether it's you being the cheater or you being cheated on, they both suck and we want to avoid it, which means we got to kind of look at it Realistically, I think and it's not.

Speaker 1:

I mean, yes, I think more of the accidental, where you're saying it could occur with an emotional affair or or something like that. The physical part there is no accidentally. Oh well, we kissed and then the water turned up a little bit and then she took her shirt off and then the water turned up a little. No, when you have the physical contact that you know your physics, you're significant other would not be okay with. That is cheating and there's no accident. Again, the first kiss may be an accident, the first. You know, hug, that they linger too long or they put their hands somewhere that you are, you put your hand somewhere that you're not supposed to. That may be, but anything beyond that first physical interaction that you know your significant other would not be okay with, or you would not be okay with your significant Other having with somebody else. Right, that is not an accident.

Speaker 1:

The emotional part, where You're drained, you you're in a bad relationship or you're in a rough part in your relationship and you reach out to somebody, whether it's a friend, a co-worker, a stranger on the internet, I mean what? Whatever? Yeah, take this back 20 years ago, oh, not even 20. God, I'm old, fuck. 30 years ago, you had no what. You had no way of just picking up a device and talking to somebody on the opposite end of the world, right, sharing your problem with them, and them going. Oh, I'm going through the exact same thing, doesn't it suck? And forming that emotional connection. Yeah, that I could see where you end up deeply Emotionally tied to somebody, where you go. Right, this was an act. I was just trying to talk to somebody.

Speaker 3:

But I cannot tell you how many people I've talked to that say that they start with again that emotional connection. And then you know, one night or something whether it's a business meeting or A late night at the office or whatever the kid who knows any number of things and then that first physical Sexual breach happens, whether it's a kiss or a hug that just goes on too long or whatever. That first thing happens and truly I've heard straight They'll both be like oh my god, no, we can't let this happen. This is not good, we're not going to do it, we're not going to be alone anymore, we're not going to spend time together. And then they just sort of try to walk away. They just sort of try to walk away and to me the problem is is that it's a little bit like Dry drunks. Have you heard that term? Somebody's a dry drunk.

Speaker 3:

No okay, so hang out with actual drunk, so okay. Well. So people who are Alcoholics generally need some sort. They need some sort of support and they go through whether it's a 12-step program or they're doing it on their own with the therapist or something but they're working through the issues that drove them to drink in the first place.

Speaker 3:

Okay so a dry drunk is somebody who has stopped using alcohol but hasn't actually done the deep dive work to figure out why it's such a problem, right, what their triggers are and stuff. So they're much more susceptible To falling back into the patterns or they might still be the same asshole they were, but now they're just sober in an asshole. So that dry drunk. So people, when they have that first breach and they're like, oh nope, okay, we're not going to do anything to me that's like they're just going to be tried this dry approach. They're not going to try and change things in their relationships, they're not going to talk to their partners about it, they're not going to think about it and do this the introspective work that needs to be done to figure out why they got to that place and therefore they're more susceptible to it happening again.

Speaker 3:

And I think that is a huge problem for people and if anything, anything, that is such a good place for people to go, oh shit. We have to do something now. If we want this Relationship, whatever relationship you're cheating on, if we want it to work, we better figure out what the hell is going on here, because do it nothing is not going to get you to the point where you want to and it's, and I agree, I mean, but again I think we're both in agreement.

Speaker 1:

once that first physical line has been crossed, there's nothing accidental if it goes on again.

Speaker 3:

Okay, Well so. I still think it's a little. I'm you're being more literal with Accidental. I'm using accidental in the sense of Like it sort of happens, but as opposed to somebody who goes out deliberately to a bar or goes on Ashley Madison calm and is specifically looking for, you know, to breach their vows, right, and so I'm not. Again, I'm not excusing it, right, maybe it's only accidental in their minds, but but that's what it make it.

Speaker 3:

I'm not saying I'm not saying that anybody should be excused for it, so we can call it whatever we want, but but I do think people sort of tiptoe into it, if you will. Okay it makes it okay. But that's how they will say to their spouse later or to the therapist later oh, it was an accident.

Speaker 1:

Fair enough.

Speaker 3:

I will say that.

Speaker 1:

You know I've done a plenty of stupid things in my life, from the time I was a child through my adulthood. I'll probably do something stupid next week. Yeah, if you. This is just my sidebar, probably one of many, as everybody knows.

Speaker 1:

If you end up finding yourself in that situation where it's you and a co-worker, you and a friend, blah, blah, blah you cross that line where you start the affair and you realize, oh no, this is not what we want to do, this is not who I am. The number one thing you have to do is don't look at yourself in the mirror, don't go back to your hotel room, don't sit in your car and think I'm just a piece of shit, I'm an asshole, I'm worthless, because that doesn't help. That doesn't help you get to the root, like Beth was saying about why did it happen that? And it sounds mean to say this, but that is your excuse to look at yourself and go. I'm just unworthy of love, I'm a piece of shit, I'm a bad person.

Speaker 1:

I do this because I'm a bad. That's not an excuse. You need to actually be honest with your significant other and then deep down, both of you together and you on your own too, because if you're in couples therapy, I've said you should probably be in individual therapy as well. Both of you when with a separate therapist. So you're not like a separate from your couples therapist. Because you need to deep down, dive into, okay, this is who we are as a unit, and then you need to go to talk to somebody else and go okay, who am I in this, in my world, kind of thing.

Speaker 3:

So so, erin, I think that's one of the smartest and most absolutely on point things I've ever heard you say. The only little is I don't know that people have to have separate therapists, but aside from that, I don't think you have to, but I think it helps. Okay, so we can, people can do that, but I think you were so right. Right, you were so right that basically copying out, saying that you're worthless, it is a cop out and I hadn't really thought of that. But it's like an alcoholic just saying, well, I'm an alcoholic and therefore there's nothing I can do. And yet there are things you could do.

Speaker 1:

But it's not even. It's actually even worse than that, because all you do is you know you're gonna beat yourself up and you're gonna go God, I'm just a bad person. And you beat yourself up and it's.

Speaker 2:

I'm trying to think of an apt comparison.

Speaker 1:

It's your parents, you know, giving you a spanking, or you know punishing you because you brought home a bad grade. Yes, you brought home the bad grade, but you brought home one bad grade, did they? Was it because you were slacking off and you remember? Oh shit, my ass hurt last time I got an F on a paper, or damn it sucked to be grounded for a month and watch all my friends go out. Or is it something where you need to figure out why? What did you do to fail on that test? What did you do to not focus on what you should have been focused on? So that's just my advice on it and what we can deep dive later on into the errand childhood trauma of every person in the family seeing the same therapist and it not working out because that therapist was Macavel or was a? What's the word? Is it Macavelian?

Speaker 3:

I don't know he was a. He was a. Let's just say, a bad therapist is just a bad therapist. And I'm I was a lawyer. I'm still a licensed attorney, so I understand there are also lots of shitty lawyers, so I'm not just saying everybody is a shitty.

Speaker 1:

Oh, there's shitty people at every single occupation.

Speaker 3:

That's right. So find somebody good, find somebody good, that's key. And then then figure out what you need, and if you want separate, that's fine, if you don't want separate, that's fine too. But finding somebody good is absolutely key, and so then all right, so let's think about it. I think people get how things sort of step up at work and everything. I think sometimes it steps out like even neighbors. It's amazing how many neighbors will start having flings. That's so weird to me, like I like my neighbors.

Speaker 1:

But I don't hang out with them without my wife there, Like that's like I hang out with the guys because we go out and we drink or we go golfing or we go shooting or something like that, but I wouldn't. I don't hang out with my female neighbors without my wife present, because that's just and I'm not again, I'm not passing judgment if you do that.

Speaker 1:

just it never occurred to me to go like next door to my friend's wife and go hey, do you want to? Just the two of us hang out and watch a movie? No, that's weird.

Speaker 3:

Well, sometimes it starts with even three people. So like, for example, if your wife traveled a bunch and your next door neighbor is like, hey, come on over join us for dinner, and even if it was both of them, but then he has to run out and go do something and now you're talking to the wife a little bit. Right Again, these things start super, super, super small. They happen with people parents, if you have children, like the parents of your kid's friends. Those are people you might be just hanging out at softball games or soccer games or swim meets and stuff. That's definitely a place that those things. After every Saturday years, you know, a couple of years on end, you see the same people, you're talking to them and stuff. And God knows my husband was never at those events, so I was always talking to other people.

Speaker 3:

I didn't cheat. That's not my thing. Frankly, I thought I was so unattractive that nobody would even want to cheat with me, so I probably missed some commands, but anyway. But so you just got to think about those little, those ongoing things, and it starts with a little flirtation and God knows again, personally I flirt with people on a regular basis, but I tell them I will flirt just as much in front of somebody else. I'll flirt just as much with a woman as I will with a man. I'll flirt with a couple and to me there's just nothing. There's nothing more to it. I don't see it as such. I just see it as a way of connecting and you know.

Speaker 1:

So I've been told I was a giant flirt from the time I was what 13 on. And the funny thing is is I have no idea how I don't see myself as one because I don't know. I just make conversation and people who are really in my really close inner circle will see me at a giant party 40, 50 people and see me talking to two girls, one guy one on one with somebody, and all they'll do is look at me or they'll look at somebody else, because I've heard from secondhand of oh Aaron's holding court and at first I never knew what that meant. I didn't understand that like I was young enough that I was like what the fuck is that mean? And now I understand it, like because I've seen it. I've seen other people do it. It's really interesting to see a charismatic person not saying I am charismatic, I don't think I am, I just talk, you are no, it's right, but if you're holding court, you are charismatic and that's what it is.

Speaker 1:

But I might be, but I don't think of myself, as I just like to talk to people. I told you, I said it on this when we go to Naughty in New Orleans, when we go to Splash Takeovers, we go again. We're gonna hopefully go again to both of those next year. I will talk to every single person in that that entire event, because I just like to talk to people and I wanna know every single thing that led to them being there topless at a pool or dick out at a pool, just like hanging out, and I'm like dude, how much sunscreen do you gotta put on your dick to make sure it doesn't get burned? Like that's just an interesting thing. I wanna ask where somebody will look at me and go oh, you're really charismatic and like why? Just because I wanna talk to people.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so Because you talk to them about themselves. But anyway, so, yes, so yes, so I can start easily. But again, the fact is you don't just do that when your wife isn't around, you do that in front of her because there's no, you have no hint, no temptation. There's no part of you that is looking for anything outside of your relationship.

Speaker 1:

I mean attention. Okay, attention, yes, yes, yes, that's why I got into radio in the first place. I like people. That's why I was on stage with the guitar for a while. I like people looking at me and paying attention to me. But yeah, I know.

Speaker 3:

That's right and your wife knows that right. And again. So there's no, you know me, it's secrecy. To me, secrecy is that that is how you know when you're doing something, because they call it also like micro-cheating, micro-cheating.

Speaker 1:

I mean I stop putting micro in front of everything.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but in this case I think it's good, because to me, micro-cheating is when you don't tell your partner something, when you deliberately, right, you don't tell your partner everything you do every day, no. But if you and I met for lunch, you would tell her, because we don't have lunch every day, no. So you'd be like, oh, yeah, beth and I had lunch. You know she says hi, and that would be it. But if you didn't, if you thought to yourself, oh, oh, and you just somehow they forgot to tell her, and then she heard from somebody else, then that would be more concerning.

Speaker 3:

Or if you and I were having late night talks, even if it was about the podcast, but you didn't tell her, you're just like, oh, it's nobody, no big deal Problem. But if you're like it's fucking Beth, again, she's driving me nuts about the podcast, right, there's nothing there, there's no guilt, which means there's no secrecy. And I'm telling you, secrets are only good, and not even all the time, then. But for surprise parties, okay, even then you better make it short and sweet, because somebody could get some bad ideas. So I think that I think that's kind of the key. And so this started, because I sent you also an article where there are people, what do they call them like cheat busters or something I forget.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's. It's interesting because the movie or the TV show cheaters is still on the air. How they're still on the air after all of this time. Well, no, because it's a little bit different.

Speaker 3:

But Houston, where they call somebody up and say you've won a free dozen roses. Who do you want to send it to?

Speaker 1:

All right, and these idiots? I'm not gonna ruin that and tell you that that's fake, that's 100% scripted.

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, okay good, because otherwise it's so stupid I can't stand it.

Speaker 1:

I again. You're my lawyer. So if we get sued for me spilling the tea, just Google whatever radio show that you think does it and you're gonna find about seven or eight more.

Speaker 1:

Anyways, I'm sorry to burst somebody's bubble. Anyways, there's, yeah, and the interesting thing is that there's a college student who I don't know if he started the business or he was a co-founder of the business, but he works as a guy where other guys will pay him to reach out to their signal, their female significant other. He said he only does it with females, he's not trying to bust gay guys because I guess he feels like he doesn't know how, whatever. Anyways, he will reach out to them via social media and start talking with them and start, you know, just striking up a conversation and stuff and eventually be like well, with a fake profile by the way.

Speaker 3:

So he probably posts very you know good-looking pictures of quote himself, and I have a feeling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he posts pictures of himself but like not his face.

Speaker 3:

Okay so.

Speaker 1:

I don't know.

Speaker 3:

One way or the other, it's catfishing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's catfishing to find out if the significant other will cheat.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, but I mean it's yeah and not that he meets them in person, it's only like online.

Speaker 1:

Like, will they respond and everything, yeah, and the interesting thing is, I mean from a hey, you know the internet, growing up with the internet, founding and being on AOL chat rooms and stuff. And you know, having an adult pure over my shoulder when I was 12 years old and going, you know, it's probably not somebody who used to be a cheerleader for USC and me going no, and I'm going, yeah, that's just a 50 year old dude in his underwear talking to you because he's a weirdo, yeah, and so I, knowing that that part of me goes, god, that's like it's kind of scuzzy to you know. Be that, you know the way that he's talking to me. Be that, you know, the whole catfishing thing itself is absolute bullshit. And why? Why do you find something better to do with your time? Go learn a hobby, go learn a trade.

Speaker 3:

Well, he's making money on me.

Speaker 1:

Well, this is the thing. So I'm the entrepreneurial and business degree standpoint. It is fucking genius. Because this dude is a college athlete, he's got to be in great shape, he's got to be pretty charismatic because you know sorry, guess what the athletes always get the attention. From the time you're in P, we's and elementary school, all the way up, you get attention. You have people around you and you don't learn to command people's attention and how to be conversational when you're an athlete because you don't have an option.

Speaker 3:

Right. So he clearly does this and stuff and so. But to me, I guess this is where I say if somebody reaches out to you out of the blue on social media I see this it is sort of accidental, it's kind of like I would kind of I might respond and flirt because again it's on social media I'm not thinking I'm going to meet this person, but I would tell my partner I would because and because, again, I just believe in the secrecy is the problem. So to me, if you do get somebody reaching out, whether it's somebody you know or somebody not, and you're not sure if it's okay, the answer is it's not okay, it's not in which, and tell your partner, whatever it is, tell your partner, because that that's not cheating them when you tell them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean we talked about before, you know white lies and what. What's a white lie or what's a lie? That's okay to tell. Oh, I love that meal that you made. It's okay. Next time they go, to make it just go. And how about we do this instead?

Speaker 3:

You know, don't yes, I love that you made this meal for me, yeah oh, that you know that dress does not accentuate how big your ass is.

Speaker 1:

stuff like that it I'm not. Tell you honestly, I this is the fun part about me also kind of not having that filter is that my, my wife will ask me how do these pants look on me? And I'll go damn, your butt looks awesome and huge and I love it and show go oh, fuck, I can't wear these.

Speaker 2:

And so.

Speaker 1:

I don't have that filter part where I am trying not to. It's not a I'm trying to hurt her feelings, I just don't. You know, to me it's a compliment. She doesn't think so. Anyways, I say all that to say this yes, the the point is, don't keep things like that secret. Yes, it's very it's weird, because now I'm getting spam texts. I don't know like. Everybody gets robo calls and spam calls. I'm now getting spam texts and I don't know where I signed up. I don't know what somebody said it, but it sucks.

Speaker 1:

It's funny because it's always supposed to be a 22 year old girl who's going to send me pics if I want. And it's hilarious to me because the first thing I do is I tell my wife about it because she gets a laugh out of it. But I've and my lawyer, you was going to freak out about this part. I've developed two different responses one, I will mess with them and, like I will take up their entire time. I'm not messing with somebody else. Or I will try to scare the living but Jesus out of them, like one. And I, I'm putting this on tape. So if they come after me and guess what, you're my lawyer, I, I there's no confidentiality, because you're putting this out in the public, so I know.

Speaker 1:

But I just said that I do very bad things to people who try to scam me. I said I do things that a Halloween movie would even deem appropriate and that that was it. They never responded. I left it like open for three days just to see what they would say. They never responded. I was like all right, cool, send it to spam.

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, I'm not advocating for that, but it is pretty funny and I've never heard.

Speaker 1:

I've never heard a person in my life.

Speaker 3:

But that's weird. That's weird, but okay. But getting back to the topic, at the end you can take an approach and basically tell people you know, tell them you whatever, make up any sort of lie you want, just basically you're not interested, block the number, move on. But one thing I really think.

Speaker 3:

So Esther Perrell, famous sex therapist, relationship counselor, she's written several books. She wrote a book called the state of affairs rethinking infidelity, and she says the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage. Okay, the victim of the affair, meaning the person who got cheated on, is not always the victim of the marriage. And I think that that's kind of interesting because sometimes it's that if somebody is truly, really narcissistic, if somebody is just demanding, if somebody has absolutely refused to give their partner what they've asked for repeatedly. Again, I'm not justifying cheating, it's not a good thing but I'm just saying that cheating often happens when there's vulnerability in the relationship, when the relationship is not fulfilling to one or both parties.

Speaker 3:

And so this is my book the Five Kinds of Intimacy. You have to have all those five kinds of intimacy or you are subject to your vulnerable and just beware of that and take steps and take precautions, don't just ignore the fact that your partner isn't getting their needs met. Don't ignore the fact that you're not getting your needs met within the relationship that's. You know, you've got to pay attention to these things. Sorry, I sort of talked over you. What would you say? No, no.

Speaker 1:

I was just it occurred to me that, like, look at our pop culture, mm-hmm, all through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, now not so much today, but country music, tv shows, especially now, lifetime movies you freaking Anyways. Guy cheats on girl. Guy's an asshole, guy's a douchebag guy's. He just doesn't appreciate what he has at home, right. Girl cheats on guy. Well, he drove her into the arms of another man because he neglected her for work or he wasn't paying enough attention to what the signal she was giving. So that's just another stereotype that people overcome with this whole.

Speaker 3:

Well, but this is my. This is why I say in the book, I think, that heterosexual I think I've said in the show, heterosexual relationships are set up to fail. I think because we start out with men thinking you know, men avoiding emotional intimacy until and unless they're in the middle of sexual intimacy. Women we're taught to avoid sexual intimacy until and unless we get our emotional needs met and then we basically give. We give sex, we let the man have sex. It's like a reward, and then that's during the courtship period or dating. But once you're actually in a committed relationship, the rules flip and that's where we expect emotional intimacy, but sexual intimacy is now optional and that doesn't really work and it's not right.

Speaker 3:

All five kinds of intimacy are equally important. So, yeah, there are so many men out there that are living with. 25% of couples are in sexless marriages. So it's just a little bit foolish to think that if you're in a sexless marriage, that one of you is not going to find someone who's going to start fulfilling those sexual intimacy needs in a way that becomes secret. So be aware, be aware and you know hell, speaking as a husband who cheated and stuff, we stopped having sex and I don't know if he started cheating before then or not, but I knew. I used to tell my clients if you're not having sex with them, somebody is. And lo and behold, somebody was. So I'm speaking from experience and just be aware, because if you want the relationship to last, you just got to watch it really really carefully.

Speaker 3:

And so look for those little micro things, micro cheating things, start talking, don't shut up. If you are not happy, don't be quiet about it. If you're not happy in your relationship and you're quiet about it, there's no way in hell it's going to get better. If you're unhappy and you start talking about it, you get a counselor, etc. Get a coach, get a coach holler at me if you want to betthedarlingwaycom, right, get somebody else. Hell, call Esther Perreault and whatever it takes. It's so much cheaper and so much more worthwhile than a divorce lawyer. I promise you not much. I know my rates now are so much lower than they'd be as a divorce lawyer. It's ridiculous, so ridiculous, but anyway, all right. So, oh, harville Hendricks, I like this getting the love you want. He says all couples should be in therapy because relationships are the scenes of our deepest wounds and deepest growth. I like that. Relationships are the scene for our deepest wounds and our deepest growth. And I would say the growth is optional, but the wounds, those are inherent. So those are a couple of quotes I thought that were really really good.

Speaker 3:

So, and also, don't forget the biology of sexy stuff and romantic stuff and even physical touch. All of those things lead to hormones, to us releasing hormones. We get oxytocin, which is the bonding chemical, more so for women with orgasm than men, but still both of us. We get dopamine, which makes us just happy it's like cocaine and and other just feel good adrenaline, other feel good hormones. So as soon as you start getting those released, which come with excitement, physical touch, sexual orgasm, sexual touch, those things immediately make you crave and want more of it. So those accidental things become more and they become more addicting. So so, heads up, I want you to stay together, I want you to stay happy, have great sexy and if you're happy.

Speaker 3:

If you're not happy, well you know then then figure it out, right, if you want to be happy together.

Speaker 1:

That's right. I want you to be happy. If you don't, then get out.

Speaker 3:

That's it.

Speaker 1:

Don't stay there and go. Oh well, we need to stay together, no no, no, no.

Speaker 3:

Teach your children right. That's the problem. So many of us grew up in dysfunctional families, with dysfunctional marriages or committed relationships, that we don't know how to do it. So don't do that to your children. They deserve to see what good parenting, what good relationships, look like. So, okay, that's, that's us from our soapbox.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, that was a good long, 35 minutes soapbox.

Speaker 3:

There we go, but so talk to your partner about what is cheating to both of you, okay, what is cheating to both of you? Define the boundaries, talk about, ask each other if there are secrets that maybe you need to come clean about now, because now's a good time and then talk about how you're going to fix things to make your relationship more impenetrable except for each other, of course. Impenetrable, yeah, okay. Anyway, all right, thank you, erin, thank you, thank you. Thank you everybody for joining us. I'm Beth Darling. You can find me. You can find my book the Five Kines of Intimacy at BethDarlingcom and you can email me at Beth at DarlingWaycom if you do want some coaching and stuff individuals or couples. And, of course, follow us please on social media. We'll see you online sometime soon. We're so excited to be part of this sexy journey with you. Thanks for coming with us. Bye.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to the Come With Us podcast. Be sure to follow us on social media at Come With Us podcast and send in your questions, comments and confessions to come with us. Confessions at gmailcom. Until next time, keep it fun, flirty and naughty.

Accidental Cheating in Relationships
Exploring the Complexities of Cheating
Cheating and Secrecy in Relationships
Discussing Catfishing and Infidelity in Relationships